.
Feedback

Poll: Is First Amendment Speech Relative?

Does anti-gay Westboro Baptist Church deserve the same free speech protections and support as anti-gay Chick-fil-A?

While millions of Americans last week were clogging roadways, parking lots, and drive-thru's in a show of solidarity for Chick-fil-A's highly publicized anti-gay marriage stance, another tidbit of notable news managed to get shunted aside.

In a bipartisan vote, Congress passed "The Honoring America’s Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012," which President Obama has vowed to sign into law. The innocuously titled bill, however, would appear to run counter to the notion of free speech that Chick-fil-A supporters purported to uphold with their presence and their record-breaking business on Aug. 1 as part of Chick-fil-A "Appreciation Day."


The new law would prohibit protesters from picketing military funerals two hours before or after a service. It also would require protestors to be at least 300 feet away from grieving family members.

The measure is targeted at the widely loathed Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan. with such signs as, "God Hates Fags," and "Thank God for dead soldiers," saying the deaths are Jehovah's Old Testament-style punishment for "the sin of homosexuality."

The church's funeral pickets, or mere threats to picket, routinely draw outraged citizens of various religious and political persuasions who form human barriers and counter-protests, as was the case  

"Protests that encroach upon the funerals and burials of our fallen soldiers are repugnant and inappropriate — and they undermine the respect military families and loved ones undeniably deserve," said a statement by retiring Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, who sponsored the bill's provisions.

So-called "hate speech" can be in-your-face, as is the case with Westboro's vile antics, or it can be veiled, as arguably was the case at this past week's appreciation day, called for by former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee after the firestorm created when the fast-food chain's CEO publicly stated his, his family's, and his company's antipathy towards gay marriage.

While many would argue that equating Westboro with Chick-fil-A is foolish, Christian blogger, Matthew Paul Turner, in a powerful post that went viral the day after the CFA appreciation day, nonetheless argued that the event was a sad day for American Christians, doing nothing to disprove the notion that Christians hate gays and lesbians.

"Christians all over America ignored the second greatest commandment: to love our neighbors. Call yesterday what you want, freedom of speech, a rally behind 'family values,' a sincere fascination with CFA’s brand of fried poultry… but it cannot be called love. It was not love," Turner wrote.

"People felt hate and we ignored that. At the end of the day, regardless of whether or not your Christian understanding of scripture harbors hate or not, a large group of people felt hated," Turner added. "By rallying behind CFA, Christians put an issue above people. And it’s impossible to follow Jesus when issues trump people."

For those who would argue otherwise, it doesn't help matters that Phelps and other key members of Westboro took to Twitter to trumpet and stand behind CFA. (Then again, so did the American Civil Liberties Union).

Bottom line: Even though many of CFA's supporters contended that their actions were driven as much by staunch free speech concerns as any anti-gay sentiment, it begs the question: Despite it's harsh tactics and over-the-top rhetoric, doesn't Westboro deserve the same free-speech protection and support given Chick-fil-A? 

Take our poll, and feel free to expand on your thoughts in the comments section below.

Newsletter & Alerts

Get the best stories each day and important breaking news

Subscribe

Not from Mauldin Patch? Find your Local Patch »

martin, bob September 11, 2012 at 06:48 pm
@ Reg regarding your public invitation.
I have no desire to meet you anywhere or anytime. Such an invitation is Unwanted and Unwelcome. Furthermore I have no desire to see any of your pictures. The Patch community requires you to support the things that you say "In Public".
JoSCh September 11, 2012 at 06:57 pm
You show a degree of cowardice not often seen, particularly on the internet bob. Troll harder. A real troll would have at least said he'd meet reg somewhere and then just not show up.
reg September 11, 2012 at 07:04 pm
I am supporting it "in public" (and oubluc and publuc, too, as you originally posted). I am publicly offering to provide my physical evidence to the public, as I have publicly announced.
As everyone here knows, what other method could I use to meet your request for proof? I could post links to articles with pictures of flooded homes - anyone can do that, though; that wouldn't be valid. To maintain the validity, then, I offer actual physical evidence. I find your sudden requests to this old article, in challenge to a statement I made here over two weeks ago, just to be another method of argument. Not a good one, either, since you're apparently resorting to silly requests which you won't even honor when provided with respectful response. Again, I leave my offer open to anyone.
martin, bob September 11, 2012 at 07:07 pm
No link, no cred.
JoSCh September 11, 2012 at 07:10 pm
I'm gonna die laughing if at the end of the day his whole troll is just a scam to steal your identity.
martin, bob is actually a displaced Nigerian prince and has $15M US dolars he needs to wire transfer two you bank accounts. Please be making to post a picture of your credeet cards and checks on photobucket for secure transfers.
reg September 11, 2012 at 07:18 pm
it seems that's exactly why he's asking for that, too, Josch. He wants me to post my insurance papers (with all the personal info, including financial institution data) online; to show my home address online..... this guy's requests have me .... troubled. Add in the fact that he apparently has all day to sit around and post stuff on patches across the country, well....he's ID theft troll, maybe?
william clark September 24, 2012 at 02:01 pm
churches are not to be involved in this kind of thing (protesting against something). The job of the church is to preach the great commission, and Christ only gave His established churches that authority, The Good News of salvation through Him , and live daily by His example. We are not to get involved with the things of the world. Christ said that His people are born in this world but are not of it, meaning , the things the world does which is mostly against what Christ taught are not to be lived for or with. There is a great need for Churches to preach against sin and the need for repentance of its members today.
william clark September 24, 2012 at 02:09 pm
all one needs to do is listen at our President telling people lies day after day.And other people who we elect to serve us and do the job we sent them to washington to do. I have never seen oir heard so much hate and lies coming out of this group ofpeople in washington on all my 75 years of life, as today. Even the Black people of congress in their cacus said they have let obama get away with all his failed policies because he is black,the unemployment rte for blacks is at 14% but not a word to obama about it , the president of their cacus said we would be marching around the white house if that was a white president.(unquote) Its our "pride" that keeps us from calling obama to task over all his failed policies. Folks this is what our country has come to today.....they all need to be fired now, every last one of them .
JoSCh September 24, 2012 at 02:15 pm
Speaking of hate and lies, how have you been william? I see you're still posting lies without citation, way to accurately represent what we can only assume is the prevailing attitude of the GOP.
If ANY of you reasonable GOP supporters want to counter the lies the most vocal of your "teammates" by all means, here is the forum.
stanley seigler September 24, 2012 at 04:20 pm
@william clark
re: ... preach the great commission...live daily by His example. is this the great commission of the old or new testament...didn't Jesus repudiate much of the old...especially the old-T violence...eg; He replaced 'an eye for an eye' with turn the other cheek, forgive 70x7, and love yo neighbor... old-T allowed Israelites to hate their enemies and sometimes command them to slaughter them...Jesus said, “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” http://reknew.org/2009/07/jesus-repudiation-of-old-testament-violence-2/ also raises the question, which version (old/new) should be taken literally...
william clark September 24, 2012 at 04:44 pm
God's Word is not bigotry as many of you state... Proverbs 6:16, These six things doth the Lord hate: a proud look, a lying tongue,and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. "it must be remembered that all these are within the person as a sin and the Lord just doesn't hate the deed , but also the person that does these things. So , to say God doesn't hate anyone is just not correct within scripture. God hates all who hate HIm. that is why God created hell and the lake of Fire, for those who hate Him and go against His Will. God also hates those who hate and demean His people . You will find many places in the Holy Bible where God uses the word Hate towards man and his sin and iniquity. Both in the Old and New Testament. Many also misquote Christ about Judging one-another, Matt. 7:1 is not a blanket command on not ever Judging others. that tells us how we are to Judge others . Because in John 7:24 Christ commands us to "Judge Righteous Judgment" not to judge according to outward appearance. In other words , we are to use God's Word to Judge all things, not our own opinions. And the other statement used by so many people to justify their sin of homosexuality, is "Love thy neighbor as thyself".....That is speaking about thy brother or sister in Christ not some unbeliever down the street. It is thy neighbor in the faith.
reg September 24, 2012 at 04:48 pm
I don't see "God hates fags" in any of those six. And if we're not supposed to use our opinions, then why do so many apply their own opinions of God's word?
william clark September 24, 2012 at 04:52 pm
We ought to obey God rather than man. amen. we must remember that man has in times past used God's Laws of Moral Good to hold man accountable of his deeds in this society, however, now man has crossed over the line and replaced God's Laws for man too mans sinful laws for society, doesn't work and never will work with God or Man . When you remove God's ways from a society there is no more room for Good and what is Normal and Natural, just plain wickedness and iniquity abound.This is what we are seeing today and for our future and Children.
william clark September 24, 2012 at 04:58 pm
Society should never condone civil unions or same sex marriage . we are now trying to destroy the church and ones faith and belief to pander to the wicked as God calls them. because man makes a law to give special rights to two men to have sex legally and to give them the same benifits as the normal couple , one man one woman in marriage , shows you how far we have degenerated in such short time. This is how societies destroy themselves in a short time .
stanley seigler September 24, 2012 at 04:59 pm
re: 'Speaking of hate and lies,...'
is the 9th commandment included in the great commission (see above)...just wondering... Ninth Commandment: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. (Exodus 20:16) perhaps some BO-hater christian could explain false witness and neighbor... either they have ref/links (tho not provided) to prove NOT false witness...or dont consider our president their neighbor...oror are hypocrites... all of the above, maybe...
JoSCh September 24, 2012 at 05:01 pm
If the public acknowledging two peoples love for each other destroys your faith and destroys your church then they probably weren't worthwhile or all that strong to begin with william.
william clark September 24, 2012 at 05:13 pm
Karen, Christ told the woman caught in adultery , "To go and "sin" no more . Christ knew she had sinned and warned her not to do it again . Christ never excused her deed of adulltery, He forgave her at that moment, because all the men who brought her had done the same at some point , and the other question would have been . "Where was the man that was sinning with her in adultery "? he was not brought there either was he , ? Karen society is responsible for the poor among them the Bible even teaches that so did Christ, it is not the Church that is to do that , but it does in most cases. The church is to care for its own members who are widowed and those children who are fatherless because of death.
So you stopped going to church because of that ? sounds like an excuse to justify your unbelief . Its always easy to find an excuse to quit isn't it ?
william clark September 24, 2012 at 05:49 pm
stanley: Give all to the poor was a statement to a man asking Christ how he could follow Christ. Christ told him to sell all that he had and give it to the poor and come and follow Him, of course the man could not sell his property and riches and give it all to the poor , because that was his idol and what he worshipped daily , his riches. so he left and went his way. Those type of people today would do the same as that man . They are called "unbelievers" . W e think because we call ourselves "Christians" that we are true believers in Christ yet we follow and live for the world and do the things of the World, we go to church on sunday , maybe on wednesday night also, we do for others at some point because it makes us feel good about ourselves. We think that God loves us because we take out of our day time to go and set in a church and sing modern day songs with loud music and that it somehow pleases God ! or maybe we think it is Glorfying God ...with our presents. When was the last time you ever heard your Pastor speak to you about your sins against God and your need of Repentance ? or would that offend you ?
stanley seigler September 24, 2012 at 05:58 pm
all BO-hater christians should read WC's ref...
'Proverbs 6:16, These six things doth the Lord hate: a proud look, a lying tongue...A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren...' if BO-haters are not speaking lies and sowing discord, they should provide refs/links to statements they make... re: ' "Love thy neighbor as thyself".....That is speaking about thy brother or sister in Christ not some unbeliever down the street. It is thy neighbor in the faith.' review the parable of the good samaritan for interpretation of neighbor... 'Finally, a Samaritan comes by. Samaritans and Jews generally despised each other, but the Samaritan helps the injured man. Jesus is described as telling the parable in response to a question regarding the identity of the "neighbour" which Leviticus 19:18 says should be loved.' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Good_Samaritan also But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, (luke 6:27) are those who mis quote Jesus false teacher...ie, ...false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies... eg, 'destructive heresies' That is speaking about thy brother or sister in Christ not some unbeliever down the street. It is thy neighbor in the faith.
william clark September 24, 2012 at 05:59 pm
reg: it is apparent you do not read and study the Holy Bible .God's Word for all men. i gave you one scripture where God has condemned those who will not see the Kingdon of God.. so ! if they will not see the Kingdom of God . then it is very apparent they will be cast into the lake of Fire for their unbelief. 1 Cor. 6:6-9 reg are you one of these listed in that scripture ?
reg September 24, 2012 at 06:04 pm
there you go again, wm., demonstrating my argument that God's word - written by men, mind you - is still so subject to consistent variations in interpretations by men. (Were that *not* the case, there wouldn't be so many different Christian churches, now would they?) It appears that you are trying to assume the role of God in your criticism of me, though, wm. Based on that do I ask you to *stop sending me messages*. I have no interest.
william clark September 24, 2012 at 06:05 pm
some of us were like that at one time, but ye are washed , but ye are sanctified,but ye are justified in the name of the Lord . amen for that truth. we are now set apart from the rest of the world, yes we are indeed special people of the Lord Now by His Grace. He has chosen some of us to be saved and some not to be saved. that is the way God does His will. He chooses whom He wills > amen.
martin, bob September 25, 2012 at 01:11 am
reg doing that personal message routine again.
stanley seigler September 25, 2012 at 01:36 am
re: When was the last time you [stanley] ever heard your Pastor speak to you about your sins against God and your need of Repentance ? or would that offend you ? [william clark]
probably about 50 yrs ago...religious dogmas (sounding brass and tinkling cymbals) of any organized religion and religious zealots turn me off... i prefer to take Jesus at His WORD... '...when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.' josch disagreed with the old saw: 'dont argue with idiots.' he said they should be called on their stupidity. howsoever william clark is beyond the pale and this is my last response. i believe at best WC is a biblical 'false prophet'...repeating: '...false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies...' at worst a deranged religious zealot...with no understanding of the scripture he quotes...
reg September 25, 2012 at 01:46 am
to william, my use of "personal messages" was in reference to those on this board. To you, baub, I was referring to your actual personal messages direct to me.
martin, bob September 25, 2012 at 01:56 am
Anybody got any posts deleted lately?
reg September 25, 2012 at 02:16 am
I believe yours were, yes.
Kaye Fox September 25, 2012 at 03:12 am
My Bible says that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. Enough said.
JoSCh September 25, 2012 at 04:10 am
God hasn't met william yet.
JoSCh September 25, 2012 at 04:11 am
Probably not "deleted", but just not posted. I've called you people monsters or posted inflammatory posts designed to make you guys lose your racist minds that haven't been approved. Deal with it.
Note Article
Just a short thought to get the word out quickly about anything in your neighborhood.
Share something with your neighbors. Write a new post... What's up? Make an announcement, speak your mind, or sell something
Linda June 7, 2013 at 12:33 am
All residents of Mauldin need to voice their concern about this balant disregard of human safety onRead More the part of Greenville Water Co. Let your voice be heard by contacting Murray Dodd, Operations Director @ 864-241-6000.